Do you think they would protest if it was a development application from Sainsburys or Waitrose?
Would they fuck. The hypocrisy is staggering.
Essentially, the people protesting against Tesco are the handwringing chattering classes who find Tesco opening stores at odds with their anti-globalist agenda, but won't admit it. It has nothing to do with "saving the shops on the local high street", or "increased congestion and pollution", but they don't have the gonads to say so, mainly because they realise it's not really a valid complaint.
This was demonstrated aptly with the recent BERATE campaign in Bedminster, who had no problems with Sainsburys building a store there - because somehow that wouldn't harm local shops or increase congestion like a Tesco would. They seemed strangely unable to justify why this was.
People moaned when Tesco built a store on Golden Hill - now even the snottiest of Westbury-On-Trym residents use it.
Julraj in the comments section of the above article sums it up perfectly:
Don't worry, the usual thing will happen...
1. Tesco want to build a new store.
2. Local NIMBYs get together and attempt to block building it for reasons like 'it will ruin our highstreet' and 'think of the environmental impact!'
3. Tesco run out of patience
4. NIMBYs announce victory and disband
5. Sainsburys/Waitrose strike a deal to build there instead
6. NIMBYs like the idea of Sainsburys/Waitrose (hypocritical prats) and instead talk nostalgically about how the will enjoy their new supermarket.
7. Everyone with any brain confused that their original points on why not to have a Tesco dont seem to apply to either a Sainsburys or a Waitrose.
...in the future...
8. Local highstreet dies?
As I've said before, if the opening of a Tesco "threatens" the highstreet shops, then the shops aren't fucking good enough. If they were, they'd stay open and retain their trade regardless of a supermarket close by. Especially in the case of North Street, where there was an overpriced and understocked Spar clone, a couple of run-down hardware and charity shops, and not much else.
27 comments:
You're usually good; this post sounds like BEP nonsense.
1. It appears that Sainsbury's have submitted a plan to close one of their supermarkets in Bedminster order to open another. This is fundamentally different.
2. Sainsbury's haven't, as far as I know, released full plans of the store. The protest against Tesco didn't start (in earnest at least) until it became clear that the plans for their store were terrible; too big, terrible access and transport issues, would fuck up Greville Smythe, were 24hrs etc. It would be crap of people to protest against something before they had any detail of what it was and I imagine you would be in the front line of giving them a kicking if they did.
3. Planning permission isn't being sought until March or so.
Also, North Street's great.
cheers anon,
summed it up nicely. As someone who got the BERATE campaign going, I'm always amazed when people seem to be able to tell me what my motives were for objecting even when I've never talked to them.
Sainsburys say they are substituting one store for another, but it remains to be seen whether this will trigger more objections. Since some of the main complaints came from the people who would find themselves living within yards of a 24hr petrol station and refrigeration units on 24hrs a day I don't imagine they give a shit who owns the store, but it does change the facts for some, shop keepers mostly.
As anon says, who wants to object to something thats not even planned on paper yet? No professional campaigners involved, and unless you buy all that "its just middle class whinging" bollocks, most people have their lives & jobs to get on with so will wait to see what happens.
But as it happens, it looks like sainsburys and the club just couldn't restrain themselves and they're going for one of the biggest stores in Britain (100,000 sq feet, as compared to the 60,000 original tesco application). Mind you, even this isn't known yet.
Besides, from what we heard about the original planners report, it sounds like no campaign will be needed. The club withdrew the original application because it was fucked! Bounded by houses on three sides and a park on the other, grid lock on most days on the main entrance road with air quality failing legal limits just 1km away, the planning system should do its job nicely again.
As for Nimbyism, everyone is one. If I came to build a nightclub next to your house, you might have some objections to make. Would they be invalidated if you have ever been to a night club? Would the nimby label stick? Planning is all about the right thing in the right place.
As for Hanham, lets hope the class war shite is kept out of it. People have a right to object or support it on whatever motive they want.
1. It appears that Sainsbury's have submitted a plan to close one of their supermarkets in Bedminster order to open another. This is fundamentally different.
In what way? How would the effects on the North Street shops, for example, be any different if Sainsburys opened a store on the site than if Tesco did? End result is that there is a supermarket close by, regardless of the brand.
And you may complain about people assigning the middle class whingers label to the BERATE campaign, but if the truth was any different frankly you should have managed your press reports better, because to an outsider it looked like you were against a supermarket opening up next to North street, citing damage to local shops and congestion in the local area, until it was Sainsburys showing interest rather than Tesco, at which point it was apparently fine, even though if Sainsburys opened a store there the net result on congestion and local businesses would be the same, even if they did close their current store.
What were people supposed to think?
And do you really believe that a supermarket is on a par with a nightclub? Explains a lot.
Tesco Metro has recently taken over the shitty old Safeways which, together with Wetherspoons aquiring and transforming a formerly piss poor pub and getting rid of the riff-raff, has transformed the high street.
However, the wankers are repeating last years error in instructing staff that Xmas Crackers contain 'explosives'and can thus only be sold R18. Tesco, with whom do you think adults will be sharing the pleasure of detonating said explosives over Christmas lunch ?
How would the effects on the North Street shops, for example, be any different if Sainsburys opened a store on the site than if Tesco did? End result is that there is a supermarket close by, regardless of the brand.
It's fairly simple, really. There is already a reasonably big Sainsbury's in the area, about five minutes walk from Ashton Gate. If Tesco built a supermarket on Ashton Gate, there would be two big supermarkets close to North St. If Sainsbury's built one, they would close the one just round the corner, and there would be one big supermarket close to North St. Two is not the same thing as one.
Of couse, there's already a medium-sized supermarket on North St, but it's one of the cut-price German ones. Draw from that what you will. The shops on North St might be nice (a few of them, at least), but - speaking as an average local on a reasonable salary - I don't have the time and the money to shop there rather than a supermarket. Even if I did, there would be a lot I couldn't buy there.
"As I've said before, if the opening of a Tesco "threatens" the highstreet shops, then the shops aren't fucking good enough."
I'm not entirely convinced this is the case. It's more a case of people being lazy and not wanting to visit a butcher, fishmonger, grocer, green grocer, baker etc. to get their weekly shop when they can get it all from 1 place.
Dave,
Your right, to an outsider it may have seemed like Sainsburys is now ok, but as I said, on the inside we knew the club withdrew their application because it was going to be recommended for refusal. Sainsburys is a valuable face saver for them. Sainsburys may even have pulled a fast one on the club. If Tesco had set up, the retail assessment predicted significant losses for sainsburys running into millions per year. Worth offering the club a few million more (no money will change hands until the planning permission is given)and punting a few hundered grand on a planning application, even if you don't expect it to get through, don't you reckon?
Managing press is difficult. Looking at other threads on here, you seem pretty sceptical of alot of press stories (quite rightly), but somehow, don't question the views of a few commentators on the BEP website who knew nothing about what was happening.
As said, a bigger Sainsburys will still be bad news for alot of the same reasons, but people are waiting to hear whats planned first.
I won't complain about our treatment from the press though, which is only to be expected when you go up against their favouriate football club, but anyone reading the shit put out against us with half a sceptical eye should have realised that. Unless your a selective sceptic?
And no, I'm not comparing a supermarket with a nightclub, but the principle is the same isn't it? We can all be a NIMBY when it suits us.
Of couse, there's already a medium-sized supermarket on North St, but it's one of the cut-price German ones.
Another point that rather interestingly is often glossed over in this debate.
speaking as an average local on a reasonable salary - I don't have the time and the money to shop there rather than a supermarket. Even if I did, there would be a lot I couldn't buy there.
Precisely my point about why a supermarket isn't necessarily a bad thing. I moved from the area about a year ago (though still visit friends there fairly regularly) but when I did live just off North Street I would have loved a Tesco or a Sainsburys nearby. Having to rely on that overpriced and understocked Spar-clone for the odd thing outside of the weekly shop was a royal pain in the arse, and meant that I drove to Sainsburys or Asda instead of walking to the local high street.
I'm not entirely convinced this is the case. It's more a case of people being lazy and not wanting to visit a butcher, fishmonger, grocer, green grocer, baker etc. to get their weekly shop when they can get it all from 1 place.
So it's the job of BERATE et al to "force" people to be less "lazy" (price and time also come into it, not that I'd expect you to consider that) by attempting to block a supermarket opening?
Oh, but don't tell me, you speak on behalf of the entire community, don't you. Right oh.
Dave, are you not just a whinging working class bloke with a little chip on his shoulder. Don't make you much better than those middle class moaners!
A campaign by BERATE can no more "block" a supermarket than you can change Government policy.
So just what is the point of this thread? People shouldn't be allowed to speak out against something they disagree with? People should just whinge online and do nothing to change stuff around them in the real world?
You have your rants and others have theirs. Whats the beef?
Besides, if you took a few minutes to look at the now defunct BERATE website, you'd see that they never claimed to speak for the whole community either, just those who objected. But then, why bother being accurate when it ruins a good rant!
Is Mike Ford guesting for Bristol Dave on this thread? He uses many of the same 'tricks' including saying that anyone who doesn't want Tesco is middle-class and accusing Berate of claiming to speak for the whole community when they did no such thing.
Let's get some things straight.
1) I'm probably considered middle class - I grew up in Bishopston.
2) I don't think people protesting against a Tesco are middle class, I think people protesting against a Tesco opening but seemingly having no problems with the idea of a Sainsburys or a Waitrose doing the same are middle class, because they seem to protest not against supermarkets opening, but against Tesco opening.
Hence the whole hand-wringing anti-globalist vibes I get from it.
So just what is the point of this thread? People shouldn't be allowed to speak out against something they disagree with? People should just whinge online and do nothing to change stuff around them in the real world?
Not quite. But as I'd be happy for someone to point out any staggering hypocrisy in my rants, I see no reason why I shouldn't point out the same in other people's.
I fail to see what is hypocritical with "Well, we've seen off those tesco supermarket plans for Ashton Gate for now (or something saw them off ), lets wait and see what happens next. In the meantime, we'll all get on with our lives until something major happens. When it does, we'll have a serious look at it and decide what to do. Oh and it looks like its going to be a sainsburys, which will make our name obsolete so best get rid of it"
Well, I'll await with interest to see if a BERASE is formed, or even if there is any protest at all if Sainsburys muscle in, though I have my doubts.
Dave, you dont have to live with them anymore - lucky you!
I like the local shops, however pretentious they are, but they definitely wouldn't have been threatened by Tesco, or Sainsburies.
Most of them have never done a proper job, and work in the civil service.
Enough said!
Maybe not enough, they are a bunch of gullible, naieve, and innocent do-gooders whose opinions are based from a world of privilege.
They are up in arms when the council shut access points used by the "most vulnerable" in society, but baulk at the idea of a new employer bringing work in to the area.
There are far too many naysayers in this country Dave. Seems you can't put one brick on top of another without someone shouting "Noooo..."
The incessant bitching about new supermarkets is just one example of the virulent NIMBYism that's taken root here.
Also notice it's the naysayers who shout the loudest and are often well organised. Could the same be said for the yaysayers?
Indeed are there any yaysayers out there, or is it just me?
There are a lot of yaysayers out there, I suspect they could be the silent majority that the naysayers claim to represent.
The problem is that people in this country are rather apathetic at best, and often need something organised before they'll do anything about it. Also it could be the case that the chattering classes who are against a Tesco (rather than being against a supermarket) appearing are maybe more likely to try to do something about it.
In fact whilst BERATE might pat themselves on the back for a job well done after the Tesco application was withdrawn, the likelihood is they had little to no effect on this decision at all.
Ah, I get it. This is a place for people to come and talk stupid shit about people they don't like.
For instance, "In fact whilst BERATE might pat themselves on the back for a job well done after the Tesco application was withdrawn" is complete bollocks - Berate have said publically that they take no credit for Tesco pulling out.
And as for, "they are a bunch of gullible, naieve, and innocent do-gooders whose opinions are based from a world of privilege"; what are you talking about and who are 'they'? Everyone who didn't want a Tesco? Everyone who lives in Bedminster? What a pile of nonsense.
"them lot" - turtle necked sweatered, goatee bedecked graduates with michael cane glasses.
...it was hip in the common room to be a Marxist, and now that's been defeated it's a green bandwagon now that transports them up their own arses.
Yeah good point mate. I'll tell you another thing that pisses me off about that lot, that they don't really exist. Ya numpty.
Tell you what. Count how many turtle-necked, goatee wearing, Michael Caine glass wearing people you see in South Bristol tomorrow. If you score one you win a prize. (If you score more than one you win an eyesight test.)
Tell you what. Count how many turtle-necked, goatee wearing, Michael Caine glass wearing people you see in South Bristol tomorrow
I'll admit, you wouldn't find many. However, if you were asked to count the number of handwringing chattering classes were in the whole of Southville and parts of Bedminster, well, you'd need a fucking large abacus.
Have you ever been to North St?
Plenty of them. These aren't the salt of the earth are they? There's a fucking theatre there, ffs!
ps - "ya numpty" - have you been reading Loaded?
bristol dave you are an ass.the people who live in the street(anstey road) where they intend to place this tesco store will lose their parking spaces and have the added stress of traffic in a very quiet cul de sac with quaint village cottage feel that cost them lots of cash.they dont want it,nor need it as asda have a huge store just up the road.you should keep your dumb ass coments to your self you twat.if they wanted to build it in your street right next to your front door i think you would not be so quick to slag off people for moaning about it.
ian hoyles
I just stumbled across this... have to agree Ian Hoyles: You're an ass.
You bring up class in your article and then several comments later are saying "keep class war out it". Erm... hold on...
No, it's not about it being Tesco, it's about it being a massive superstore in an over-subscribed area. We have a Lidl, the people of Hanham didn't campaign against that, and yet that's more working class than supposed Tesco... who let me check this... posted huge profits. You think they're working class? Ha ha ha... moron.
"As I've said before, if the opening of a Tesco "threatens" the highstreet shops, then the shops aren't fucking good enough."
Sums up your stupidity and lack of understanding of how people work.
The shops are good enough, but they don't have the economic power of Tesco, that continues to make massive profits. Is economics too big a word for you?
If there is a class war, it's against ignorance, and I'm quite happy to stand up and say "grow a brain."
You are a petty minded, inconsistant, baffoon.
Proud of being Bristolian? Well, if you are... I am not.
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